I had the pleasure of sitting down with Susan Hempinstall at her office for another edition of the Sidelight. We chatted about technology adoption. BoardSpace Bill tagged along and had a few questions of his own.

Here is what we talked about.

1. Why nonprofits need a dedicated board platform (not shared personal drives)
2. Susan’s evaluation matrix: Canada-based, storage, users, retention, price
3. Winning over a skeptical board and early adoption hurdles
4. Document retention, privacy, and “need not to know” permissions
5. Before vs. after: meetings that run on time (agenda + timer)
6. Committees in BoardSpace: real-time minutes and getting work done
7. Change management: how to accelerate adoption
8. Practical payoffs: reminders, renewals, and board readiness

Listen to the podcast or read the transcript.

 

Pat: Great to connect with you again. Yes. The focus of this podcast is all about technology and adopting technology. So I first met Susan over a year ago now when she was on her board, and they were looking for a technology solution to help them manage the administrative side of the board.

I’d like to start out by asking Susan to tell us a little bit about her background and her experience on the board, and then we’ll dive into the adoption of technology.

Susan: Great, thank you. Pat? Um, yes, I didn’t meet Pat. Uh, I was 18 months, almost two years ago now. And I’m an IT professional. I’ve spent, uh, close to 30 years in information technology. As a woman, it’s a challenge at times. I’m also an IT educator. I teach at a local college.

And, uh, the reason I ran into PAT was because I joined a board of directors for a local nonprofit organization. Uh, they were in a pickle at that time, and what had happened was they had a turnover at the executive level, and one of the executives happened to own the Google Drive where all the board documents were stored, and she basically wanted her drive back.

So they found me as an IT director and, I met Pat when I was actually shopping for board software.

Pat: So what did it take to convince the board that they needed some kind of tech solution to help them?

Susan: Uh, there were a few main issues, Pat. What I did was my, I put my IT hat on and I ran it as a little bit of a project and ran a scope on, okay, so what are your requirements and what is your outcome for this? Because we were at a perfect spot to change from Google Drive.

The notion of storing all our information on a, on somebody’s Google Drive, which I don’t think is very safe, and I’ve been in IT for so long, I realized, you know, there’s gotta be an app or some sort of software for that.

So let’s have a look. And of course, when I canvased the board, they were talking about Dropbox and all those items, and I’m kind of getting squeaky at that point going, I’ve never had really a good experience with Dropbox and I’m not sure that that’s what they really need.

So what I did was I, I canvassed them and I said, okay, so what are your main issues? And the main issues were threefold.

First the documentation had to be migrated from Google Drive. That was a non-starter. We had to get it off there.

Second, the new location must be associated with a generic board role, not as an individual, because again, we didn’t wanna get back into this Google Drive issue, when somebody else turns over from the board. So nobody could own it. We had to have a central repository.

And the third part was because we’re a nonprofit, we wanted to keep costs to a minimum.

So this is what drove us to search for a software. And I was convinced that there had to be a board software that was Canadian, that kept our information in Canada, preferably local. And that was, you know, cost-efficient. And we could leave our information there and trust that it would be, you know, taken care of, looked after, backed up, and that we could all access it.

Pat: So then, how did you, how did you get the job to find a solution?

Susan: Basically, I don’t know about, I know you’re from condos, you have a condo background, but, with nonprofits, there are not a lot of IT specialists that are offered to be volunteers on a board of directors for a nonprofit. The, the cause the social, not, not that they’re not social, but the social services and the, IT don’t often overlap that way.

So when they get an IT director, it’s like, okay, if you know IT, what can you do for us?

Pat: So basically you were the only one that had the techie background that was deemed the expert to go find a solution or that would almost admit it.

Susan: Like I did not want to admit it. But you know, they come from all walks and often you’ll see a lot of fundraiser types on, on the boards, and you’ll have somebody who’s in government, a lot of government people, lawyers, people who work in social services. But very seldom do you get somebody that’s kind of hardcore IT that’s on a board. So this was like, okay, you run with it.

And I thought, yes, I could run with it and just choose something. But that’s not the way things work. In IT, we do a comparison, at least three products side by side. So first we get our, we look at our main issues, we get our priority requirements for a new system, and then we look at three possible solutions, three or more. It’s like, uh, what I tell them is that, um, you can’t tell the right time with two watches. You need a third one. Okay. So we start there and that kinda sticks with people.

So what I did was I went out and I shopped. Now I did three board softwares, but I also did Dropbox on this one. I did a fourth one because they were so convinced about Dropbox.

Pat: And, um, so what was on your spreadsheet, I can see that you have a spreadsheet in front of you. What are, what are some of the, the key comparative items that you were looking at?

Susan: Okay, yeah. Fair game, Pat. I always have a spreadsheet in front of me. I think the first time we met, I had a spreadsheet you did. And the second time we met, I had a different spreadsheet. Yes, I have my spreadsheet. This is the final version of the spreadsheet, by the way. So I finally did get it finished. Yes.

Susan: So what, I had an answer to your question. I had a list with, uh, a vendor. So I had the Dropbox, uh, business version, and I had, uh, three board softwares of which Board Space was one. Um, the next, the next column I said, is it in Canada? Now, these board software that I contacted, one said, in future we will be. And I thought, oh, okay, so you’re breaking into the Canadian market. Well future, you know, anyway, they, they were kind, they wanted the business, but they were willing to say in future. And I said, well, maybe we will, you know, I’ll write that down.

Storage was another one. Um, the board, some people on the board who knew about Dropbox, and that was kind of the, you know, the out there term at that time, well, let’s go Dropbox. I don’t think they realized that there’s only a two-gig storage limit. And when I assessed the documents that they had on the person’s Google Drive, we were already at 2.63 gigs. So we were a little bit over that and it would’ve cost us more in, in the pricing, which was the next column, what is your pricing?

So I contacted these companies and I found that they ranged anywhere from um, a thousand US to 1100 US a year to upwards of 7,000 a year. And I thought, wow, that’s a lot. And I’m gonna have a hard time selling that.

Another, restriction was the number of users most said 20. BoardSpace, of course, you know, I’m telling you. But it was unlimited.

And then file retention, some of them like Dropbox, I don’t know if people realize, but the, uh, retention is 120 days. And then you recall versions and, uh, I don’t know that people are aware of what exactly that means or how difficult it is to get your documents back. And of course, Board Space was indefinite.

Pat: How long should boards be keeping their documents for?

Susan: That’s probably something that is more under your expertise than mine. But we did do, I have done this great boards, uh, software. I’ve been trained in the board and and there were lawyers on site on the board. So basically, as long as you should is the answer, which is a little bit vague, but you know yourself when you get into these things.

I know I had a condo and they had somebody survey our chimneys, for instance, an engineer didn’t do it properly, ended up having to go back and redo these and there’s now a lawsuit in, well that survey initially was done three years ago. So how long do we keep the documents? Again? Depends on the document, but I, I’d say the longer, the better.

Pat: Well, there certainly are some legal requirements legislated by the body that legislates a particular kind of nonprofit. So financial typically is seven years because you file tax returns. Minutes are generally considered forever. Keep them all forever. Things like, for condos, reserve fund studies, well, you need to have certainly three or four or five previous ones. Uh, governance documents. Well, you should always have your governance documents and you should always know what the original ones were. Yes. And then correspondence and other things is definitely as long as you should keep them a long time.

Susan: Yes. And that makes sense. The example is, is when you go looking for something, ’cause it’s only when you have a problem, then you realize you can’t find anything. So be proactive, keep them, keep them, then when you need them, they’re there.

So what you say makes perfect sense. And what I hear now is when I’m looking at my spreadsheet that I should have put a couple of, uh, stars for emphasis on file retention and yours was indefinite. Others were the two other boards, space softwares were non-committal. And Dropbox was of course the one 20 days. And what you said too, I did end up taking PDF copies of email correspondence and putting those on Board Space as well.

Pat: Yes. So we met and we discussed, I know I had a chance to pitch BoardSpace. And so then you went away. How did you convince your board, first of all, to make the commitment to software. And then I guess how did you convince them to go with BoardSpace?

Susan: That was the easy part. Pat, BoardSpace basically sold itself.

You came up tops on the vendor in Canada.

Yes. Storage unlimited.

Yes. Pricing. Phenomenal. Thank you.

And users unlimited and file retention indefinite.

Susan: One other, another couple of issues we had was, or that sold the board were, um, your background. You have, uh, a background on condo board. So you have board experience, you also have, uh, experience as a volunteer in the community, a lot of community service.

You’re basically a straight up guy, Pat, you’re just, you’re there. So you’re, and you were very honest about how you develop Board Space, what you developed it for. And when you gave me that first kick in the, you know, kick the tires with it and you gave me that first demo I was sold.

And as an IT person, I can tell you anything that that’s, that’s that simple to use, you can sign in with your own email address. They can’t not adopt that.

Pat: So time, time went on and the board started using it. I, I’m, I’m always curious about how the individuals make that transition. So in the very early days, what were some of the, maybe the small barriers for particular individuals? Like what, what caused them?

Pat: Um, or so why did some people, maybe why were some people reluctant to get started? And then how did you overcome that?

Susan: Well, the first, actually funny story about that, I tried to get you in for a demo, but the board timing was tight and so on so that you, and you would trust, you said, oh, you go ahead and demo it. So I tried to demo it, but they had one laptop that would sign in and it didn’t have a mouse. And I’m very challenged without a mouse and I kept doing this, somebody running at this person, a mouse. So I got a mouse, I got signed in and I gave them a, a demo on the screen at the board meeting I was allowed five minutes. And once they saw it, they were convinced.

The person that was convinced the most was the secretary. It was the minute taking the structure of it. Those who did not want to sign in were, I think that was the most resistance was, oh, do I have to sign into another app? When they realized these reply all emails with endless attachments and the big stack of papers that we had to read through when it took care of those. But they were all on board then.

Pat: So I can certainly understand why the secretary, the recording secretary would be the keenest. How long did it take these sort of less, less keeners to get going? Was it like a couple of months or?

Susan: I’d say, one or two board meetings, which is a couple of months. ’cause the board meets every month. Yes. So the, the papers kind of diminished as we got through to the second, uh, the second month. Yes.

Pat: When you think about a, a the little bit of reluctance that some people have, understandably it’s a change. Of course it’s doing something differently. Any suggestions as to how another nonprofit might be able to encourage everyone to get started faster?

Susan: Yes. Um, I think there, there, there are a couple of points to get to get started faster and, and get their stuff off those drives. Uh, I don’t know that they realize that being an IT person and yourself being an IT person, we know that, you know, Dropbox has its limitations. Um, shared Google drives have their limitations. Anything that has a personal aspect, how private is it?

Can anybody view it? Is it, is it secure that way? What about when other somebody else takes over? You have other people viewing it.

Susan: I think that’s the, that’s one the biggest reasons they should adopt this technology is it has to be a central repository that’s neutral that you can assign tasks and functions to. So the recording secretary has access to this and that the executive committee can have their own committee that nobody else can see those documents. Because besides being a need to know out in industry and out on boards and with information management, my own theory is that there’s also a need not to know. And I think that Board Space honors that need not to know. And I think it’s something that’s quite a bit overlooked.

Susan: And having this central piece of software to manage all your documents, it’s a perfect way to protect that need not to know.

Pat: So now I know you’ve left the board, but the board, excuse me, but the board is continuing to use BoardSpace.

Susan: Yes.

Pat: Can you describe maybe a before and after picture so that we can, we can understand better what the board looked like and behaved like before they started using Board Space and now it’s nearly, you’ve renewed your subscription. So it’s, it’s about 18 months maybe using Board Space.

Susan: I think mm-hmm. Yes. As we were, you know, we, we’ve discussed this and, and I think this is a point worth, uh, worth repeating, is that there a couple of aspects to a board of directors. There’s a content aspect and there’s a relationship aspect. And the relationship aspect is the relationship between the volunteers, the clients, um, the operations people and Board Speaks takes care of the content. Board Space is an administrator for the content. It holds all this content. So you don’t have to worry.

Susan: So what was the board meeting like before relationship? How are you doing? I haven’t seen you in a month or so and you know, we’ve got food going and we’ve got all these relationships and we’ve got this pile of paper in the middle and it’s like, here, did you get your board report? Did you get this? Did you get your operations report? Everybody’s seen this. Did anybody read this before we came to the meeting? Hmm. Well, it was on the reply all of the email, it kind of got buried at the bottom. And I look at it on my iPhone, probably not. So I’m looking at it madly in the board meeting, um, after Board Space.

Susan: Okay, we have structure Board Space, has a timer meeting started 6 0 1. Are we following our agenda? Yes. So by managing the content and keeping it all structured, you’re also managing those relationships. And what I found too was if, if you have an item that is 10 minutes, they look up and say, look, it’s 10 minutes on the timer, we gotta move on. So it reduces that the socializing within the board meeting itself. And it forces you to stay strictly content driven. I mean, there’s plenty of time for socializing that’s not, you know, it’s not a bad thing, but keeping the content structured and making sure that all the documents are in one place and that everybody’s paying attention.

Susan: That’s what board meetings are like now. Very focused, disciplined, and structured.

Pat: That’s a very interesting indirect effect from using a technology like Board Space. It does more than just provide, what was the term you used? A skeleton scaffold.

Susan: A scaffold, yes.

Pat: I love that. A scaffold. So it does more than simply Pro provide a scaffold. It’s also, it’s also got a almost like a social, a social aspect to it.

Susan: Yes. It’s encouraging structure, focus, keeping on time moving forward.

Pat: Oh, that’s really great. I love that.

Susan: Oh, I love Board Space. I think it’s one of the most wonderful products for non-IT people that can appreciate what it can really do. And especially when it comes to those privacy issues. Uh, the concern over that, the governance issues and the IT issues themselves. I mean it can do all that. And I think it’s committee work. When you put committees on there that is one of its strengths.

Susan: The fundraising committee, they are those marketers and those social people. And I’ve never seen a committee use apps so well and software so well they were actioning and sending out things and little meetings and storing documents and everything. They were one of the most accurate users. But then again, they use customer relationship management databases. They use CRM, they use fundraising software and they would not live without BoardSpace. They could meet through it. And they did that. They actually were all signed on. They were on a conference call and they were meeting through Board Space, taking the minutes and watching the active minutes as the person was typing.

Pat: Yes. What advice would you give another board who was starting to think about adding technology to their, to their nonprofit, the kinds of advice that would, you know, encourage them to take the plunge to get started? Like what, what is it that ’cause ’cause it’s a change and anything that’s a change is hard. So how could you maybe help them over that initial hurdle of, oh, we’re not too sure.

Susan: Oh my gosh. You have to do it. You cannot know life. How did you know life before your iPhone? How did you know life before you had a calendar stored on there with reminders? This is all offered at the board level. Mm-hmm. It takes care of all your content. It is another person on the board. It’s an administrator that manages all that for you.

Susan: Can you tell me on a board, when is your IT contract coming up for renewal and you’ll need that eight to $10,000 payment in three months. How do we know that? Well, somebody has it as a bring forward item somewhere. Hmm. But when it’s on a calendar reminder and BoardSpace, you’ve got that heads up, you’ve got time to go out and do your due diligence and shop for those three suppliers, compare them and make that decision, make an informed decision with the board, uh, BoardSpace, cost-effective. You can’t beat it.

Susan: It’s, it’s worth its weight in, does it weigh anything? I don’t know. It’s worth, its weight worth. It’s worth its weight and efficiency and structure.

Susan: And you know, on a board of directors, we, we, I think you and I are both experienced directors on board boards of director and directors. We’re both experienced directors. But what we, what we can forget is that the directors are volunteers and many of them are new. So having that tightly structured administration piece takes away a lot of that newness from them. They just fall into place. They can sign onto Board Space, they can see the documents. They, they’re supposed to see, um, they can participate. They have access to the minutes. And what does it cost you? Just your email sign in mm-hmm. And you’re there. mm-hmm. You don’t have to wait to the next board meeting or wait for a reply all email with a document attachment or ask for the document. You can just go in and see that you can get yourself prepared for those meetings.

Pat: So now that you’ve finished your term on this board, are you actively looking to be on another board?

Susan: Maybe not straight away, but it is one of the most rewarding things I’ve done. The, the best part about the board being on a board, especially volunteering, is that people are volunteering for a reason and they are there to get stuff done. So it is very active, it is very busy and they do stuff.

Susan: Uh, if you work in a day job and you get into that maintain rope, you know, where you go in every day and you do this and you have coffee and you socialize and you get your work done, that’s fine. But when you’re on a board and you’re volunteering, you’re there to really get the work done and you’re all there with the same purpose and you all want to work. So having a board software just facilitates that. You can divide things up into committees and you can all access it at any given time. So it, the board is much more than just that three hour month meeting. It’s, it’s on all the time. It is on as much as you want it to be. You can converse, you can, you can have sub-meetings, you can have committee meetings, you can exchange data, you can give each other action items. You’re not just confined to that meeting room three hours a month.

Pat: Yes. I can’t really remember what life was like before the internet, but certainly I didn’t grow up.

Neither you and I grew up having internet, email, iPhones, anything like that. Technology has really, in, in my humble opinion, improved our lives so much and made our lives so much easier that I can’t imagine going backwards.

Pat: But it’s been great having a chance to sit down with you and catching up after we haven’t really connected for quite a while. And, uh, thank you so much for your time and your expertise. I’m sure other directors will find your expertise very valuable. So thank you very much.

Susan: Oh, thanks for having me, Pat. It’s so, it’s wonderful. I’ve so much enjoyed you some the product and I’m here with you talking about.

Thanks for listening—see you next time on the podcast.